Agricultural and wastewater pollution in U.S. waterways

[00:00:17]

KARL EISENHOWER: Good afternoon and welcome to SciLine’s media briefing on agricultural and wastewater pollution in U.S. waterways. I’m Karl Eisenhower, SciLine’s managing editor. Today we’ll cover water pollution and water quality issues due to agricultural runoff, wastewater effluent, and other contaminants, how climate change affects those issues and what we know about algal blooms in water. If SciLine is new to you, we are philanthropically funded and editorial independent nonprofit based at the American Association for the Advancement of Science. All of our services for journalists are free, and our mission is to make scientific evidence and expertise available for journalists on all beats. That might be stories explicitly related to science like news about vaccines, or in an election year, it could be topics like voting access. There’s scientific research on all kinds of topics that can ground your reporting and evidence.

More about our resources is available at sciline.org. You can also click the blue “I Need An Expert” button any time you need to speak with a scientific expert for your story. We’ll look for a source with the right background to answer your questions before your deadline. A couple of notes before we begin, I’m joined here by three experts who study various aspects of water quality. I’ll let each of them introduce themselves and their areas of research. Dr. Gurpal Toor, would you go ahead?

[00:01:37]

GURPAL TOOR: Good afternoon. My name is Gurpal Toor. I’m a professor and extension specialist at University of Maryland in College Park. I’m a soil scientist by training. My research and extension work focuses on the land water interface, where I study how nutrients behave in soils and how they move from agricultural landscapes into streams, rivers, and other water bodies.

[00:02:08]

KARL EISENHOWER: Thank you. Dr. Vera Trainer.

[00:02:11]

VERA TRAINER: Hi, my name is Vera Trainer. I’m with the University of Washington’s Olympic Natural Resource Center, which is on the Washington Coast. My area of specialty is marine biology with a focus on toxicology. I’ve studied harmful algal blooms and their impacts on coastal ecosystems for my entire career.

[00:02:36]

KARL EISENHOWER: And Dr. Sandra McLellan.

[00:02:38]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Good afternoon, everybody. I’m Sandra McLellan. I’m a professor at the School of Freshwater Sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, which is located right on the shore of Lake Michigan. I’m a microbiologist by training, and we study both regional and localized sources of fecal pollution. So that would be agricultural runoff, sewage overflows, wildlife, domestic pets. And our central question that we try and answer is where the source is coming from so they can inform maybe what the health risk is from those sources, and also more importantly, or as importantly, how they can be remediated.

[00:03:22]

KARL EISENHOWER: Thank you. Before taking on these questions, I’ll ask each of our panelists a few questions myself. Journalists, you can submit your questions at any time during the briefing. Just click on the “Q&A” icon, which is at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Please let us know if you’d like the question to be directed to a specific panelist. We will be posting a recording of this briefing to our website later today and the transcript will be added in a couple of days. With that, let’s begin. Dr. Toor, how do nitrogen and phosphorus from agriculture enter waterways?

[00:03:55]

GURPAL TOOR: Thank you, Karl. So nitrogen and phosphorus both are major nutrients that we use in agricultural landscapes to produce food. They enter waterways primarily through three main pathways. So one is runoff, which means the water flowing over the land. The next is erosion, which is typically small particles get carried with excess rainfall. And the third is leaching from agricultural systems. So when you think about agricultural production, farmers, they use fertilizer and manures to produce those crops, but it’s just the nature of agriculture.

We don’t have an umbrella on the fields. So when there is excess rainfall, that causes losses of those nutrients, especially during high rainfall events. That’s when most of the losses occur. If you’re looking at Midwest, for example, that’s where the tile drainage system is very predominant, and that’s a major source of much of the nitrate losses. And in other areas, other pathways such as runoff might be more predominant. So overall, these nutrients, they accumulate in the soils, then eventually move into our water bodies.

[00:05:11]

KARL EISENHOWER: And is it common in U.S. waterways for them to be nutrient-rich in a way that is destructive?

[00:05:17]

GURPAL TOOR: So if we think about nutrient accumulation, it has occurred gradually over a long period of time. We’ve been producing food for a very long period of time. That has created excess hotspots in some areas. So think about intensive animal agriculture, for example. So when you have more intensive agriculture, especially with animals, there can be local manure, excess manure hotspots, and that manure contains more nutrients. So part of the challenge here is how we use those nutrients in a way that allows us to produce food, at the same time, minimize those losses.

Another component is the human population has increased and is increasing in different regions. As a result, many of the natural channels that existed in the landscape, think about depressions, wetlands, and small streams, they have been buried. Rivers have been channelized. So in some ways, we have modified the natural landscape that once existed, which causes excess nutrients to lose from different places. And when they end up in water bodies, they can produce other effects such as eutrophication, algal blooms, and so on.

[00:06:39]

KARL EISENHOWER: Are there policies or programs in place that are effective at reducing runoff?

[00:06:43]

GURPAL TOOR: Yeah, so there are various programs that exist from federal, state, and also local levels. So if you’re looking at the federal levels, USDA has many conservation programs that provide funding for targeted best management practices to use in agricultural ecosystems. EPA, for example, also regulate water quality under the Clean Water Act. And although the agriculture runoff is treated differently, it’s a nonpoint source pollution as compared with the wastewater. When you look into the states, this is where there’s a lot of heterogeneity among different states. Many states have nutrient reduction programs, especially in those areas where nutrients are known to cause water pollution. Here in Chesapeake Bay or Gulf of Mexico, that’s where most of the water from Midwest drains, or Lake Erie basins.

The third component is your local watershed partnerships or nonprofits. They can also be very effective as they also work with various farmers and other agencies. And note that many of these programs are voluntary unless you are in a regulatory state. State of Maryland is a regulatory state where we have guidelines, recommendations, for nutrient management on how farmers use. And there are a bunch of other areas in the country that use this, but most of these programs are voluntary. And so as a result, the adoption rate varies very considerably as you go from one state to another.

[00:08:18]

KARL EISENHOWER: So when reporters are looking in their local area for people to talk to, it’s not just people in government agencies. It may be people in local nonprofits who are doing this kind of work.

[00:08:28]

GURPAL TOOR: Absolutely. I think you’ve got to talk to all different people. Federal agencies are a good start. Probably if you’re working on some agricultural issues, look at your state department of agriculture. There’s a lot of information that exists in different programs. Many states also have sort of a department of environment. They may have some additional information that you could seek out. Also look at some other local sources, especially in areas where we have water quality concerns.

So in Chesapeake Bay, for example, if you’re working in that area, you can just subscribe to a journal. It’s called Bay Journal, and it has been very influential over a period of time, where there have been a lot of articles related to different aspects of nutrients and also the go between science and policy. So if you are a new journalist coming into the field, that could be great resource for you to see what already has been done, what has been published, in addition to seeking out information from other agencies.

[00:09:34]

KARL EISENHOWER: That’s a good tip that specialty journalism can be really helpful to people who are new on a beat who want to get caught up.

[00:09:40]

GURPAL TOOR: Absolutely.

[00:09:41]

KARL EISENHOWER: So for reporters reporting on this, what sort of trade-offs between food production on the one hand and water quality on the other hand should they be aware of?

[00:09:50]

GURPAL TOOR: So when you’re trying to produce food, it’s going to come at an expense of something, right? Because agricultural is diffuse. We don’t have umbrellas on the agricultural fields, and our intensive agriculture or our high-yielding agricultural systems, they need nutrients to grow food. That’s part of the challenge. It’s the industrialization of agriculture. So if you are trying to reduce nutrient losses, often we think if you add less new inputs, then you will have less nutrients to deal with, right? But that’s where some of the conservation practices are designed to capture some of the nutrients that may not be used by the plants.

So again, I think these practices, when you think about that, they can increase costs. Especially farming, most farmers operate at very thin margins. So unless there are other programs or subsidies available, it’s really challenge for many of the farmers to adopt new practices, especially since many of them are voluntary, and if there are no state programs. So the trade-off is not always absolute. So some of the science that we have in understanding nutrient use efficiency or how we can better-manage soil is improving, and we are doing much more research to better-understand those connections. So as a scientist we also have to provide that information back to farmers so they can adopt and use on your farms. So the challenge with trade-offs is balancing the short-term economic pressures that many farmers face with long-term sustainability and ecosystem health.

[00:11:35]

KARL EISENHOWER: That’s very helpful. I appreciate it. Dr. Trainer, let’s switch to you. What causes harmful algal blooms, and how are they changing in frequency and intensity and duration?

[00:11:47]

VERA TRAINER: So harmful algal blooms are caused by algae, or microscopic plankton in most cases. For the most part, these microscopic plankton are very beneficial. They produce over half the world’s oxygen, but a very small number of them can produce chemicals or toxins, which can get concentrated up the food chain. In the case of marine harmful algal blooms, these can get concentrated in fish or shellfish. And then when we eat the fish or shellfish, we can become very sick or even die. In the case of freshwater lakes, these toxic blooms can cause problems with drinking water.

[00:12:35]

KARL EISENHOWER: How do fertilizer runoff and climate change interact to impact either the frequency or the intensity of algal blooms?

[00:12:43]

VERA TRAINER: I would say that they’re both causing them to increase in intensity. In the case of freshwater, I would say that it’s more fertilizer runoff that is causing the greatest impact. However, with climate change, we’re having increasing temperatures. So that elevates the growth rate of many of these planktons so that they can grow more quickly. Some of them have unique strategies for outcompeting other plankton, so we believe that they’re going to become more of a problem in the future. The balance between climate change and runoff is a tricky balance. But especially in the Great Lakes, we’re seeing intensified harmful algal blooms, and depending on where the intake for drinking water supply is, we’re going to see these becoming even more of a problem.

[00:13:40]

KARL EISENHOWER: So for those drinking water systems, what are the risks that the algal blooms present?

[00:13:46]

VERA TRAINER: Many of these algal blooms produce neurotoxins, and some are in the surface of the freshwater lakes or near surface, but some are also benthic near the bottom. So depending on where your drinking water intake is, you can have these toxins released into the water. Carbon filters can be used, but they’re very expensive to remove the toxins from the water. So yeah, if you have an algal bloom …

[00:14:24]

KARL EISENHOWER: A carbon filter, that would be like activated carbon in a Brita pitcher in my refrigerator.

[00:14:28]

VERA TRAINER: Exactly. But they’re very, very expensive to use, is my understanding, at water treatment plants.

[00:14:37]

KARL EISENHOWER: So what tools do we have to monitor algal blooms, and what do we wish we could monitor that we’re not monitoring?

[00:14:44]

VERA TRAINER: So with freshwater lakes, some of these blooms can be monitored by satellite, which is really very handy. When they are initiating offshore, we can look at their movement toward shore and then either shut off our intake to freshwater, to the drinking water systems. As far as marine systems, it’s much more challenging. These algal blooms can be much lower density. So we actually have to go out, we have to collect samples. They’re much more difficult to monitor by satellite. But we have a variety of tools, including robots, AUVs, autonomous underwater or surface vehicles, that are monitoring for these blooms. We have ships going out. We have folks monitoring on beaches, but more and more our tools are becoming automated for detection of these blooms.

[00:15:55]

KARL EISENHOWER: So you were talking about lakes, you were talking about marine systems. What are the differences in how these manifest in freshwater versus coastal waters?

[00:16:03]

VERA TRAINER: There are different species. So you’re looking at a variety of different organisms that are able to live in these different environments. So harmful algal blooms are as numerous as the decorations on your Christmas tree. So depending on your specific location, those blooms are seeded in that particular area and can then result in different problems when they’re ingested by people.

[00:16:37]

KARL EISENHOWER: So distinct waterways are distinct ecosystems just like things on land are distinct ecosystems.

[00:16:43]

VERA TRAINER: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:16:45]

KARL EISENHOWER: Right. OK. Dr. McLellan, let’s talk to you, and make sure you remember to unmute yourself. How does wastewater contamination reach local rivers, lakes, and drinking water sources? Are there specific locations that are more affected than others? Well, I’m sorry, I’m reading off of my notes, but I want to make clear, we’ve been talking about agricultural runoff, we’ve been talking about algal blooms, and now we’re switching to talk specifically to wastewater systems and the effluent coming out of wastewater systems.

[00:17:19]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, so first I’d like to say we’re really fortunate in the U.S., because we have really high standards for treating wastewater. And that’s a challenge in cities of a million people, and it’s a challenge even in rural areas. That said, our wastewater systems are aging. So they can become overwhelmed, because they’re undersized for the population, and we can have overt sewage overflows when the system exceeds capacity. We get too much rain, which leaks into pipes, or maybe it’s a system that is combined. It’s capturing stormwater and wastewater going to the treatment plant. If it’s capturing stormwater off the street, it’s easy for it to get overwhelmed.

So when we think about wastewater contamination in these waterways, most people think about these overt sewage overflows, and they’re recognized, they’re reported by the wastewater agencies, and usually there are health warnings around it. What is maybe more insidious and unrecognized is the fact that because these systems are old, they start to fail. These pipes start to fail in the ground, and over time, there have been mistakes in connecting these systems. Somebody, they’re building a house or renovating an apartment, they see a pipe in the street, and instead of putting it in the wastewater line that goes to the treatment plant, they accidentally put it in the stormwater line. And we see many of these in most cities that we’ve studied.

So that’s the two ways in an urban area wastewater can get into systems through overt sewage overflows or through this failing infrastructure, which makes its way into the stormwater system. And then once it hits the stormwater system, that’s a direct pipe to rivers and lakes. And those pipes are supposed to be draining just rainwater that washes off the street. And what in fact can happen is it can be a four-lane highway for wastewater. That doesn’t let maybe rural areas be unimpacted by wastewater, because most of those systems are not sewered areas. They’re treated by septic systems, or in some cases cesspools, especially around the Hawaiian Islands, and in those areas they’re a little bit more difficult to monitor and manage, because it’s system by system.

There have been studies in Michigan, for example, where you can see there’ll be numerous septic systems leaking, and that cumulatively will start to show up in the rivers. So if you have a thousand septic systems and one is leaking, you may not notice it, but if you’re in an area where maybe the ground soils are conducive to have that connection to the groundwater or the river, then you’ll start to see human contamination in rural areas in some of these rivers. And as far as different communities being differentially impacted, I think older cities are a little bit more susceptible to unrecognized sewage inputs, and then, again, to mention, if you’re in a rural area, it doesn’t really mean you are free from wastewater contamination. That can come from mismanaged or failing septic systems.

[00:20:48]

KARL EISENHOWER: You were talking about older systems. In fact, in some older cities there are combined sanitary and wastewater sewer systems, and there’s been a lot of expense lately to try to add storage capacity to those systems to allow more time to process that wastewater, correct?

[00:21:09]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yes, and that’s a really good point to bring up. Most of these older combined sewer systems are in cities that have been built before 1900 or earlier, and ironically, it’s on the East Coast in Maryland, around the Great Lakes region, and in the Pacific Northwest. And this is where we see cities where the stormwater pipes and the wastewater pipes are connected together and they go to the wastewater treatment plant. But in those same cities, once you get to that maybe outside of the ring of development post-1920s or ’30s, they’ve started to build separated sewer systems.

So it’s really the oldest, densest part of the city that we’re worried about with combined sewer systems. And yes, there have been a lot of big projects around the United States to add capacity. Milwaukee had one where it reduced combined sewer overflows from 60 times a year to 1-3 times a year. So these storage systems can have a huge impact on being able to capture that water long enough for it to then be treated after the rainfall stops.

[00:22:21]

KARL EISENHOWER: So what kind of things cause a sewer system or treatment system to be overwhelmed, and what kind of systems are most susceptible to that?

[00:22:30]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: It’s really the intense rainfall. So combined sewer systems are obviously the most susceptible, and we are seeing more intense storms, so a high amount of rainfall in a short period of time. I think that’s the trigger point for these combined sewer overflows. If we have 3 inches of rain over three days, the wastewater treatment plant and the storage systems can keep up. But if we have 3 inches of rain in 12 hours or less than 24 hours, that’s when it gets overwhelmed.

[00:23:05]

KARL EISENHOWER: And one of the things we know about climate change is that one of the things that’s changing is we have more events with intense rainfall.

[00:23:12]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, exactly. And I can say in my career, I have seen three 500-year storms where the engineers have looked at the weather record, and they can say the occurrence of such an intense storm should happen once every 500 years. And in my career of 25 years, I’ve seen it three times already. So I think we can almost be assured that we are going to see more intense storms, and as a result, more combined sewer overflows. I want to mention, it’s not just the combined systems. The sanitary sewer systems are not completely tight. There’s joints in the pipe.

So when you have intense rainfall that can’t be absorbed, it starts to surround those pipes, it leaks into the pipes, and you can actually watch your wastewater treatment plant flow. Many cities have this online, and in these separated systems, you see the flows go up with rainfall. That tells us there’s a lot of intrusion into these systems. So you can also have sanitary sewer overflows, which are as serious as combined sewer overflows.

[00:24:22]

KARL EISENHOWER: So when untreated wastewater gets into a waterway, whether it’s from a sewer system or from a septic system, what are the health risks that are associated with that?

[00:24:31]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: We’re really concerned about human pathogens, and the humans are the reservoir for human viruses. So things like norovirus, which is the virus we’ll hear about on cruise ships, which is highly contagious and hardy in the environment, that’s maybe the main one we worry about in terms of exposure to human viruses. It takes a very low dose to make you sick. We worry about other enteroviruses, which are just other viruses that can infect the intestines, but it also can have other effects like headaches and fever.

Then adenovirus is another one that we can see in sewage. Aside from the viruses, there’s also pathogenic bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, shigella. All of these commonly are circulating in the population somewhere. Somebody is sick with them, which means it gets into our sewage system. And then if it’s sewage from a group of people, the odds are somebody’s going to have that pathogen and it will be in the sewage entering the water.

[00:25:41]

KARL EISENHOWER: So in any local community, who’s responsible for monitoring water quality?

[00:25:46]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Generally, the immediate water quality, like should you swim at the beach? Are we worried about a health risk there? That’s generally the health department. So they’ll do the day-to-day monitoring and be posting the signs for recreational water. And then usually it’s the state level where they’re looking more regionally. What’s the discharge look like from the wastewater treatment plants? Is there sewage overflows? That’s usually the department, some kind of department of natural resources, which is what we have in Wisconsin. In Michigan, I think it’s the Department of Environmental Quality, but they’re the ones that permit these wastewater treatment plants, and require monitoring of waterways of the rivers around the treatment plants to make sure the water is clean.

[00:26:33]

KARL EISENHOWER: So one way for a reporter to figure out who to talk to is to find out who’s doing the permitting. Whoever’s doing the permitting is the one that’s going to be monitoring the performance.

[00:26:41]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:43]

KARL EISENHOWER: Okay. Well, thank you to all of our experts. We’ve already got some questions that have come in. If you have questions for our experts, the Q&A box in the bottom of your screen is where you can enter in your question. But before we get to those, I’m going to kick it off with one question. For reporters covering water quality issues, what are some things they need to keep in mind when speaking to local stakeholders? Dr. Toor.

[00:27:11]

GURPAL TOOR: Hi. I guess the first thing I will say is do your homework, understand lay of the land, be fair and unbiased in reporting. You want to ask tough questions, but ask those questions to the right people, be respectful and kind. Most farmers don’t like finger-pointing, so avoid that. Recognize that farmers are applying fertilizer and manures to produce food. They don’t want them to run off. It’s expensive to buy and add fertilizers. And I will say involve farmers in conversations about how we can together address some of these issues. It’s their farms. They may have a better understanding of working lands than someone else going on their fields.

[00:28:01]

KARL EISENHOWER: I don’t like finger-pointing either, so I think that’s a good tip overall. Dr. Trainer.

[00:28:06]

VERA TRAINER: Yeah, I would say that the stories that are told are usually when there are big harmful algal blooms, either in freshwater or marine waters. For example, we had this huge heat wave in 2015 on the entire U.S. West Coast, and there were lots of stories told about that massive bloom that was killing marine mammals and so forth. But there’s also a good news story behind that. There’s a lot of monitoring, a lot of work that’s being done behind the scenes to keep seafood safe, to keep drinking water safe. And I think it’s important to balance the  dramatic news stories with the good news stories. So that would be my advice.

[00:29:01]

KARL EISENHOWER: Thank you. And Dr McLellan.

[00:29:03]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, I want to second maybe what Dr. Toor said about not maybe finger-pointing, because we’ve run into that just looking at beach closings, and some of the early reporting on that in our area had a lot of finger-pointing, and we would spend a lot of time out in the community doing public meetings, talking about what we found on the science side, and one inflammatory article could undo a whole season of just meeting with individuals, because these newspaper articles have such a large reach. So I would really say doing your homework and trying to report on the science-based findings is really important.

And then the other thing I sometimes am concerned about is not taking an alarmist view, because we have so many amazing natural resources, and the Great Lakes are a good example of that. And when there is a lot of press about, “Oh, the beach is closed and there’s all this sewage in the water,” I think it leaves the impression that the entire area is just one large toilet, and people should stay away from the water, when in fact we might have one event in May, and within two weeks it’s remediated by nature, not that dilution is a solution to pollution, but we have relatively clean water within two weeks.

So again, balancing maybe the good side and the bad side that people don’t necessarily want to stay away from the water. They want to be able to enjoy the natural resources, but above all, follow the recommendations of public health, because they’re really the experts, and they’re out there on the front lines doing the monitoring to make sure it’s safe.

[00:30:54]

KARL EISENHOWER: Well, we have a topical question. We’re talking about how to interact with farmers and to talk to them about their needs and what they’re doing. This is from the Cedar Rapids Gazette in Iowa. “I’m reporting from Iowa where a lot of farmers are frustrated with being blamed for the state’s water quality issues. Do you have any ideas for appropriately balancing farmers’ perspectives when they may differ from water quality experts’ suggestions?” Dr. Toor, why don’t I ask you to start off on that one?

[00:31:22]

GURPAL TOOR: Sure. I can start. So in Iowa, you’re a big agricultural state. So you’re a corn and soy state with a lot of tile drainage, which is typical of the Midwestern landscape. I think the key is recognizing that farmers and the folks working, they’re looking at the same question, but from the different lens, right? So for example, farmers, they are managing tight budgets, also weather risks, and then they also want to stay productive, so while scientists, they are focused on, “How can we reduce nutrient losses and ecosystems?” So your farmers are probably as frustrated as farmers in my state. I think that’s the story of agriculture. Wherever you have agriculture and excess water, those issues are there.

Part of the challenge with farmers is there have been a lot of best management practices suggested, and many of the farmers actually have run out of using those practices. Some of those practices could be conservation tillage, cover crops, improved fertilizer management. We still have a nutrient pollution problem, and I think that’s where part of the frustration stems from, that I often hear from farmers that, “I’m doing everything I can on my land. What else can I do? I cannot build a dam around my fields to reduce runoff.” So I think recognizing that the best way to solve this problem has got to be a collaborative approach.

It’s their farms. They’re doing different things. We can’t police them, and we shouldn’t be thinking about that. The goal is we want to work with them. They have a local generational knowledge of the soils, the drainage infrastructure, the field management. So I will say engaging in conversations is very good. You also have a lot of good programs in Iowa, as we have in several other states. But it’s a controversial topic to talk about it. And the key to me solving that problem is we have to work with farmers, and many farmers would like to work with us on solving some of these vexing issues.

[00:33:41]

KARL EISENHOWER: Dr McLellan, did you want to add anything to that, answer? No. Okay. Dr. Trainer. Well, this one might be more for Dr. McLellan. “Is there a consensus about whether excess nutrients in waterways are a direct concern for human health? Aside from their connection to harmful algal blooms, I’ve received emails from readers concerned that nitrates are dangerous to drink.”

[00:34:05]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Well, I’d like to make the distinction between recreational water and drinking water. And drinking water in cities is treated by the drinking water treatment plant. So I think maybe this question refers to more rural areas where agricultural runoff can get into wells, and then there would be the nitrate problem. And usually side by side with that, especially if it’s in a area with animals, you can also have pathogens co-occurring. That is, if you’re drinking well water with nitrate, it would be a concern. But when you think about recreational waters, you’re not directly dosing yourself. You’re maybe on a swim where you’re swimming, putting your head in and actually doing strokes, you maybe swallow 100 ml of water, which is really different than drinking a liter a day out of a well that has nitrates. And then I know that there’s a lot of testing at wells, so I would really encourage people to know what their water quality is for their drinking water if they’re in a rural area.

[00:35:16]

KARL EISENHOWER: Well, actually, as someone who grew up in a suburban area with our own personal well in our yard, what resources are available to people who want to know what’s in their own well water?

[00:35:27]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, I can’t speak for other states, but I know our state lab of hygiene has a water testing program where you can get your well water tested. And usually that’s pretty easy to find. If you just do a web search, “test my well water”, you’ll usually come up with the sponsored results, but then as you go further down, sometimes public health departments will do it or state-level public health laboratories.

[00:36:01]

KARL EISENHOWER: Here’s a question about something we haven’t talked about yet. This is from Lake Okeechobee News in Florida, where there are flood control measures being done. “Has there been research into the increase in nutrient load caused by flood control measures such as ditching and draining for development in South Florida?” Anyone have any background on that?

[00:36:33]

GURPAL TOOR: So if you look at sort of the historical, the South Florida landscape, so it’s very flat landscape, the only way to get water out of that Lake Okeechobee area has been through the canal system. So those canals, they have been very effective. If you look on downstream of Lake Okeechobee, that’s your Everglades agricultural areas, which used to be a wetland at some point. So that whole area is drained, and the way that it’s drained is to get the water out, and that’s where the canals come in. So there are very known issues in Everglades agriculture system. For example, phosphorus is a limiting nutrient in that system. So there has been a tremendous amount of effort done by different agencies. Nationally, there has been some national academy panels.

If you are in Florida, I will encourage you to look up South Florida Water Management District that also has many resources and programs addressing some of those challenges with flooding. Again, your land grant universities are also a huge resource. I want to mention that to you, that if you’re looking for some information, look in your counties. There’s probably an extension office. Send them an email and ask them all sort of questions, including how to do well water testing, including if you even have an insect or pest that’s bothering you in your house or in your yard, they have answers. They know experts, so they can connect with them. So yeah, I’m happy to connect people more with Florida if needed. I spend some time there.

[00:38:17]

KARL EISENHOWER: Anyone else want to add anything about flood mitigation versus water quality? Well, here’s another very local question. This is from Delaware Public Media. “Are any of you aware of solutions or approaches to these issues that have been spearheaded by local indigenous communities?” Any tips for how somebody could learn more about that?

[00:38:41]

GURPAL TOOR: I see you’re talking about Sussex County, which is one of the three Delaware counties right next to Maryland. That’s where you have intensive poultry production.

[00:38:52]

KARL EISENHOWER: The locals call it Slower Lower Delaware.

[00:38:56]

GURPAL TOOR: Yeah, so Eastern Shore of Maryland is many challenges, because that’s where the poultry production is concentrated. So small area, we grow more than 600 million chickens, and Sussex County is a major contributor of poultry production. So your major challenge is poultry manure, as is in Maryland and in other places. I think there’s a lot of conservation practices. There’s a difference in Delaware and Maryland, for example, so in Maryland we have mandatory nutrient management. In Delaware you also have enhanced nutrient management. You also have cover crops and other programs. I think there are different solutions that eventually could work.

I will encourage you to talk to Delaware Department of Agriculture. I’m happy to connect you with some people if needed. There are a lot of resources that exist in the Chesapeake Bay watershed. The Nature Conservancy, for example, also has an office on Eastern Shore. They may have some solutions. So if you have some good ideas or indigenous communities have some good ideas, there are people who will listen to you.

[00:40:04]

KARL EISENHOWER: Okay. Dr. Trainer, do you know something about …

[00:40:06]

VERA TRAINER: So we have a partnership called Olympic Region Harmful Algal Bloom Partnership, which involves four of the tribal communities on the Washington Coast, and it’s been really successful as a grassroots operation where the tribes and local folks came to us and said, “Harmful algal blooms is a problem. How can we work on this together?” And it’s been in place for 25 years. So I can only speak generally to partnerships like that that are more grassroots, that they’re extremely successful, and we’ve been able to develop trust over the years, and a partnership that has been sustained for a long period of time.

[00:40:49]

KARL EISENHOWER: So a good next step might be reaching out to those local indigenous communities in the area that you cover.

[00:40:57]

VERA TRAINER: Yeah, exactly.

[00:40:58]

KARL EISENHOWER: So this one is from the New London Day in Connecticut. This is a reporter looking for examples of solutions that are working. It’s nice to write about good news, solutions that are working to adapt to these increasing challenges of increased nitrogen and phosphorus in rivers, lakes, and oceans. Are there some things you’d like to highlight that are success stories?

[00:41:26]

GURPAL TOOR: I can try, Karl. So I think when you’re looking at nutrient solutions, the first thing is it’s really hard to quantify the impact of those practices at the local farm scale, because we are not monitoring water quality at a local farm. So most of the water quality is monitored at a stream reach or at a river scale. So there are some successful partnerships like in the Chesapeake Bay, for example, there’s the Chesapeake Bay partnerships, where each state has their assigned nutrient load reductions, although none of the states are meeting the criteria, but there has been a lot of conversations on how you could have that type of partnerships, and that can lead to some positive outcomes. So there’s a lot of activity, for example, EPA Chesapeake Bay program that coordinates many of these activities. So again, the scale that you might be looking is different. I’m looking at a watershed scale. So there have been some successful ideas.

Is everything working now? I think if everything is working, we probably will not have a need to do this panel. So we do have those complex challenges that exist in different places. Some of the program, like I can speak Maryland, so Maryland has a cover crop program, and it’s the federal flow-through money that comes to the state. So farmers, they are compensated for growing cover crops, for example. They have to meet certain criteria to grow crops, which means when are you planting? What are you adding in the mixes, and when are you harvesting those? So some of those programs can be good, because you are covering the land that exists outside during the wintertime period when there’s nothing in the field and the runoff can expose.

There might be some other local partnerships like, for example, river keepers may have local association. Then we have very active group on the Eastern Shore. They might also have success in local water bodies. So it depends on the scale that you’re looking for. If you’re looking at a stream reach, I will say you will find those examples, although measuring success of those programs is really difficult, because many of these organizations don’t measure water quality. They don’t have resources to do that. So that’s part of the challenge.

[00:43:52]

KARL EISENHOWER: Anything else to highlight?

[00:43:53]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: I’d like to highlight one thing, and it’s not a new innovation, but I know in Milwaukee, and I think our wastewater treatment plant might have been one of the first that does this, they produce Milorganite from the biosolids. So many biosolids are just …

[00:44:11]

KARL EISENHOWER: What was that that they’re producing?

[00:44:11]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Milorganite. So it’s a brand name for essentially biosolids that have been baked to take away all the bacteria, but they have a high nutrient content, but they’re more complex nutrients, and they’re used in lawns and in parkways, and it’s a much better fertilizer because it’s more natural, it breaks down more slowly, than using some of the off-the-shelf fertilizer that’s maybe just pure nitrogen and phosphorus that is taken up quickly or run off quickly. So some of those solutions, I think we have maybe more innovative ways to think about how we’re cycling nutrients through our whole ecosystem. Wastewater treatment plants are not necessarily a large source of nutrients in the environment, but they’re capturing nutrients and finding ways to sequester it rather than send it back into the cycle, into the rivers, is really important.

[00:45:10]

KARL EISENHOWER: Great tips. Thank you. Dr. Toor, you were talking about cover crops. We do have a question about that. Is that an effective strategy for reducing runoff both of nutrients and of sediment?

[00:45:26]

GURPAL TOOR: Sure. Before I answer that question, just like Sandra pointed out, there are many municipalities that produce these specialized products. It’s pretty much a biosolid product. So if you are in the Washington, D.C., Area, the treatment plant in Washington, D.C., produces another product, it’s called Bloom, so you can actually purchase from them. So the goal is this is enhanced wastewater treatment. So the goal is you’re killing the pathogens, you’re stabilizing the nitrogen and phosphorus that exist. So when you add that back on the land, there’s a less risk of nutrient losses.

So again, in your municipality, depending on the resources that the treatment plant have, they may be producing a local product, and the goal is, because the biosolid disposal is becoming a real challenge in urban areas, to get them finding a land to dispose them or sending them to landfill, so that could be something you may look into. So coming back to the role of cover crops, so there has been a lot of emphasis, I would say, on cover crops. So what are cover crops? So the idea with cover crops is we have main season, which is when it’s warmer temperature, or spring, summer, fall, that’s when we grow most of our crops like corn and soybean. And we harvest them before winter.

So the idea with cover crops is that over winter we want to have some form of a plant or crop in the field that can cover the soil, so that when rainfall falls on the land, it does not take away the soil or the nutrients that are present in the soil. So that’s the emphasis with cover crops. So there’s a ton of research that’s been done. It’s known that if you have more plants, for example, in the land, as you can guess, they’re going to slow down water movement, for example, which means your runoff is typically lower, because plants capture that and they slow that down, which means there is less water moving on the land and leaching or penetrating into the soil.

And similarly, cover crops are very effective with erosion, because they are reducing the water flow. There also have been studies that say that cover crops capture nitrogen, but it depends on where you are and different circumstances. But this is one of our best management practices that’s been utilized in many states. Again, there are cost-share programs, like I mentioned in Maryland and a few other states. Pretty much the goal is to cover the land, so less water moves off the land.

[00:48:06]

KARL EISENHOWER: Dr. Trainer, we have a question about how long algal blooms last. And I would ask how do they end? Do they end naturally? Do they end through human intervention?

[00:48:18]

VERA TRAINER: Yeah. Well, it’s a complex question. But basically, when the nutrients run out, that’s when they die. But if you have a constant source of nutrients, for example, in 2015 when we had this coast-wide marine algal bloom, it was sustained for quite a long period of time, I would say a couple months. And the same in freshwater systems. As long as there’s a supply of nutrients, these algal blooms are going to be sustained. There are very few treatments. We have some examples where smaller freshwater lakes, we’re looking at treatment possibilities, adding barley straw, using bubbling and so forth. But these mitigation tools are all in very early stages with some success. So in summary, the marine and freshwater algal blooms can last for weeks, and for the most part they naturally disperse. We don’t have really good mechanisms for controlling them artificially.

[00:49:31]

KARL EISENHOWER: Here’s a question from the radio program Farm to Fork, and before I ask this, I will remind you that these briefings are on the record. We encourage reporters to use audio and video or quotes from these briefings. “Is it your perception that the farming community is acting responsibly in terms of water quality protection efforts in their operations?” If you’re a guest on a radio show and asked that question, how would you respond?

[00:50:07]

GURPAL TOOR: I can start. I would say yes. Many farmers, if you think about that, the farmers are generational farmers. This is where their livelihoods depend on that piece of land. So many farmers that I can speak for farmers from my state, they are active participants in many aspects of the things that we do. They are actively looking for new solutions that we can suggest to them so they can use on their farms. So this may vary in different states. I think most of the farmers, I will say they want to be part of the solution. The challenge here is we don’t really have a lot of new tools. So when you think about what BMPs would you suggest, cover crops, for example, that’s one, you can do buffer strips, you can do enhanced fertilizer management, that really doesn’t answer that question, “How do I reduce the 10lb of nitrogen that’s going to lose if I have 2 inches of rain?” So that’s part of the challenge. We’ve got to figure that out and provide farmers better solutions and tools so they can implement on their farm fields.

[00:51:17]

KARL EISENHOWER: I have a follow-up question from New London Day for you, Dr. Toor. “Did you say the biosolid product sold in Washington is called Bloom? And who turns the biosolid waste into compost that people can use?”

[00:51:31]

GURPAL TOOR: Yes, it’s called Bloom. So if you Google “Bloom” it will take you on DC Water website. So DC Water is the wastewater utility that manages all the wastewater. This product is produced by Blue Plains Wastewater Treatment Plant, which is one of the top, I guess, I don’t want to say the number one, but number one or two wastewater treatment plant in the world. So if you just Google “Bloom” and “DC Water”, you will end up on a very nice website.

[00:51:59]

KARL EISENHOWER: When I lived in Austin, Texas, many years ago, they sold compost from the wastewater plant and they called it Dillo Dirt. So there may be some catchy names in your community for what that’s called.

[00:52:08]

GURPAL TOOR: Yeah. This is really an excellent product. It’s a biosolid, but if you don’t know, if someone gives you a bag, you’re going to think and say compost. Similar to the Milorganite product that Milwaukee produces. So it’s really we’re doing some research on this product, but there’s no odor, and it’s just fantastic product. But they spent a lot of money to produce that, so realizing that all the wastewater treatment facilities may not have resources to have this souped version of a treatment process. So that’s why it differs tremendously among different wastewater treatment plants.

[00:52:47]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: And if I could chime in on that, I think we always get the question, “What can the everyday person do about these things?” And this is a really great, like I said, innovative or way to change the nutrient cycle a little bit, where you’re recycling something that’s a little bit more hardy to break down slower, as opposed to buying more fertilizer that you’re spreading on the lawn. So it’s a really good alternative. We sound like a commercial today.

[00:53:20]

KARL EISENHOWER: But that’s a great point. If you’re buying bags of fertilizer that are made of petroleum, it’s highly concentrated nutrients as opposed to a more natural product that’s more complex, and it takes longer to break down.

[00:53:39]

GURPAL TOOR: If I can add a little caution, I’m all up for biosolids using. You also have to look at the ratio of nutrients in the biosolid products, for example. So just because of the nature of the wastewater treatment, many of these products have very high phosphorus levels. So as a result, it depends how you are land applying. So you have to be really careful with phosphorus that’s present in the compounds. Typically, crops need about 7-8 times more nitrogen than phosphorus to grow. In many of these products, it’s one on one, and that presents some challenges. So something to be just careful, talk to your extension people and they can help you figure out what could be the right application rate under your scenarios.

[00:54:27]

KARL EISENHOWER: That’s great advice. Next question is from the Montana Free Press, where there is a lot of sport fishing in the rivers. “Can anyone speak to the link between nutrient pollution and cold water fisheries? What happens to trout populations, for example, when nutrients increase in their habitat?” Is that one that anybody’s got some background on?

[00:54:49]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: I don’t have direct background on that, but speaking broadly, these systems are not just one isolated species. So when you change something like the nutrient content, you’re going to change the whole food web. I can’t speak to how the fish might be directly impacted by nutrients, but it’s certainly going to impact the food web. You may change the fish that they’re feeding on or lower parts of the food web.

[00:55:24]

KARL EISENHOWER: I have a question from the New Hampshire Bulletin talking again about these biosolids products. “Should we be concerned about PFAS content in these biosolids? PFAS is everywhere. Are they particularly prevalent in these products?” Dr. McLellan, I think you’re about to unmute, maybe not.

[00:55:52]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: I can say that that’s certainly an emerging issue, and I think we currently have testing requirements for biosolids, and I can’t speak to where any testing requirements for PFAS stands right now, but I would imagine that’s something that’s being considered. Then also, whenever you’re thinking about using biosolids, you really have to carefully consider using it for things that are non-food sources like your lawn or trees.

[00:56:26]

KARL EISENHOWER: Yeah. And in terms of drinking water, there are new standards for PFAS that water utilities need to meet that are coming in maybe two years. So if you’re reporting about PFAS, you probably want to look into what those new standards are and what’s happening in your community to be ready to meet those standards. Go ahead.

[00:56:51]

GURPAL TOOR: If I can add a few things to PFAS, so this is an important conversation with PFAS. There’s a tremendous public interest in PFAS, as well as this is an area of intense research work in different places. And state of Maine, for example, has banned application of biosolids, which was a big story a few months ago. So there is a enhanced public concern with presence of these compounds. And I think many of the treatment plants are actively looking at what could you do? So if you think about most of the sources of PFAS, they are originating from the homes. This is where we are using different products that are ending up in a wastewater treatment plant, and the wastewater treatment plant utilities are trying to better-manage it. So it’s not that they are adding these compounds at the wastewater treatment plants.

So one of the way long-term use will be the human consumption. If there is a way for us to minimize use of those products that release these compounds into our wastewater systems, that’s the best part. Another thing I will add is that it depends, as Sandra was saying, where you use that. So soils have a really lot of good stuff in the soils. For example, a lot of metal ions are present in the soils that can immobilize many of the organic compounds, including some of the PFAS compounds. So it’s really location-specific and how you’re utilizing it. What’s the application rate? So there are a lot of considerations. I don’t think there’s any blanket one way that you can address that. So just be mindful. Just be aware. If you are concerned, maybe get in touch with the local people. They may have some information for you.

[00:58:42]

KARL EISENHOWER: We are at the top of the hour, so I’m going to ask our final question, and we’ll ask you last, Dr. Toor, so you can have a drink of water. In about 30 seconds, what is the one take-home message you want to make sure reporters take from today? Dr. Trainer, why don’t we start with you?

[00:59:01]

VERA TRAINER: I would say that these problems are intensifying due to climate change, due to nutrient inputs, but there are good news stories. We are monitoring shellfish, drinking water, so that we know when these are a problem, and we are making available shellfish from safe harvest areas. So please, when you report, report also the good news stories.

[00:59:31]

KARL EISENHOWER: Dr. McLellan, what’s the one takeaway you have for reporters today?

[00:59:36]

SANDRA MCLELLAN: Yeah, I think we have to look forward and be thoughtful about how we build our cities and how we maintain our cities. We fill a pothole in a city within 24 hours if you call a hotline, but yet our wastewater infrastructure is deteriorating below these streets. And if we don’t keep up with the investments, the pressure of development and the pressure of climate change is going to outpace the lifetime of any of these pipes. So not only do we need to maintain them, we also have to be much more innovative about how we treat waste from our cities, because the engineering is expensive and it has a non-infinite lifespan. So we have to find better ways to be able to treat wastewater and keep it out of our rivers and lakes for the 50-year period, not just looking forward one or two years.

[01:00:32]

KARL EISENHOWER: And Dr. Toor.

[01:00:32]

GURPAL TOOR: I will first say that when you are reporting, maybe if you don’t finger-point, it’s not going to be an interesting story. I think that’s part of the journalism these days. But that’s not really our goal, right? So I guess stepping back, I will say that nutrient pollution is a real water quality challenge, and we’ve been wrestling it ever since the Clean Water Act of 1972. It’s always a complex system, and there’s no single cause or single solution. And I think many of us are looking for that type of solution, which unfortunately doesn’t exist. Second point I will make is that agriculture is an important part of this conversation, because that covers a large part of our landscape, our watersheds, and we have to involve farmers in that conversation. And that’s the only way to develop solutions that could work on the landscape.

[01:01:33]

KARL EISENHOWER: Thank you, everybody. Reporters, you’re going to get a link to a survey. We hope that you will fill out that survey for us. It’ll take you only a few seconds, and your feedback helps us plan. Thank you to our experts. These are important issues, and we’re glad that reporters are covering it. We hope to see all of you at our next briefing.